jerry dammers married

Fri 26 Mar 2010 07.44 EDT. Wiki, Biography, Age, Spouse, Net Worth, Fast Facts, Dr Sophie Scamps Wiki, Biography, Age, Spouse, Net Worth, Fast Facts, 2 Tone Records (according to The Specials). Jerry Dammers has hit out at the Specials reunion, claiming he's been driven out of the band. To view this content, click 'Allow and continue'. In the wake of a collaboration from now on, indefinitely, the band is isolated in 1981, with the band members later all alone. They perform in elaborate Ancient Egyptian and outer space-themed costumes, and share the stage with bizarre props such as model alien heads and mummy Sarcophagi. (For their part, the other members of The Specials state: "To respond would only give credence to [Dammers'] claims. Photograph: PA Archive, 'I picked up a leaflet that said We have estimated Jerry Dammerss net worth, money, salary, income, and assets. Who died out of The Specials? Discover Jerry Dammerss Biography, Age, Height, Physical Stats, Dating/Affairs, Family and career updates. His father (Horace) became Dean of Bristol Cathedral. The Specials formed in 1977. Yet the legacy of The Specials endures; on the wall of his flat in Brixton, south London, is an ageing poster for "Too Much Too Young", The Specials' first number one hit from 1980. $250,000 Jeremy David Hounsell Dammers Wiki: Salary, Married, Wedding, Spouse, Family Jeremy David Hounsell "Jerry" Dammers, (born 22 May 1955) is a British musician who is a founder, keyboard player and primary songwriter of the Coventry, England based ska revival band The Specials, The Special A.K.A. He also founded 2 Tone Records. We have estimated Jerry Dammers formed the group with the express intention of bringing together the black and white communities that lived in his hometown of Coventry. The leadership of the South African people made it clear that a campaign of sanctions against isolating Apartheid South Africa was the way to get rid of Apartheid. He contributed to the founding of 2 Tone Records, which helped develop the 1970s/1980s ska revival. He also has two sons Leo and Felix - a successful DJ - with first wife Jeanette Hall. With any boycott, if you start making an exception for this pop musician, or that professor, then the whole campaign is in danger of being undermined To walk into that situation in defiance of an established boycott was very irresponsible, and predictably proved extremely divisive. "I know for a fact from the way this thing has been advertised as The Specials' 30th year reunion that a lot of people have bought tickets assuming I was in it, and that it was the complete Specials," he complains. They made a model of me," says Jerry Dammers, picking up a plastic figurine from a shelf beneath his vinyl record collection. That was the proudest day of my life. "Like slavery and apartheid," he once told an audience in Trafalgar Square, "poverty is not natural. He wrote the song 'Free Nelson Mandela', which became an international hit and helped . The leadership of the South African people made it clear that a campaign of sanctions against isolating Apartheid South Africa was the way to get rid of Apartheid. Scott Fitzgerald (18961940), As we approached the log house, the projecting ends of the logs lapping over each other irregularly several feet at the corners gave it a very rich and picturesque look, far removed from the meanness of weather-boards. When he came on stage, the standing ovation lasted 10 minutes. It is man-made and can be overcome and eradicated by the actions of human beings." He saw that the ending of apartheid is only the beginning - and that's as true now as it ever has been. Net Worth, Husban What is Rashad Haughton doing now? Terence Edward Hall,. He seems pained that he and Hall have grown so far apart. English Ska musician Jerry Dammers, of the group the Specials, during the Red Wedge Re-launch at Ronnie Scott's, London, 7/6/1987. In October 2000 Dammers received Q Magazine's Q Merit Award at London's Park Lane Hotel. Read the full interview with Dammers - in which talks about his early musical influences, The Specials, his work with the Anti-Apartheid movement and the group reuniting without him - in the May 2015 issue of MOJO (#258). Thu 11 Dec 2008 07.33 EST. Dammers was a mod in the 1960s, then became a hippie, before becoming a skinhead. Soundtrack: Mystery Men. Dammers' instincts have always been progressive. There are several actions that could trigger this block including submitting a certain word or phrase, a SQL command or malformed data. That same year, he briefly played with the re-formed Madness on their single "I Pronounce You" and its attendant album, The Madness. When he came on stage, the standing ovation lasted 10 minutes. Be that as it may, in general, the craftsman does a perfect job in his life. He had been a member of The Cissy Stone Soul Band, and studied art at Coventry . "The Specials, I handpicked everyone in it, I put it together and had the vision for the whole thing; it didn't just happen. He became a figurehead for the struggle against apartheid, but when he came out of jail he wasn't a Martin Luther King type orator: he just said, and continued to say, important things about equality and justice. We don't have much information about He's past relationship and any previous engaged. and The Spatial AKA Orchestra. He was in a little band in Coventry and I wanted to show some loyalty to my hometown. Dammers was born in Ootacamund, Tamil Nadu, South India, the son of Horace Dammers who was later Dean of Bristol Cathedral from 1973 to 1987. He also founded 2 Tone Records. Dammers has produced singles for Robert Wyatt, The Untouchables, UB40 and Junior Delgado. Jerry Dammers was the creative genius behind The Specials, the man who gave them their political edge, who gave them their idiosyncratic musical tropes and who set them apart from the likes of The . Jerry Dammers's net worth The concert at Wembley to celebrate his freedom was amazing. Terry Hall, Lynval Golding and Neville Staple had left to form the Fun Boy Three, but I'd carried on with the name the Special AKA and a fluctuating lineup. In November 2015 he received an honorary doctorate from Sheffield Hallam University. The ska legends are touring this. They may have had a big skinhead following, but The Specials were a great symbol of racial harmony, and after the first break-up Dammers went on to compose the anti-Apartheid anthem "Free Nelson Mandela". Jungle Music (Groove Tunnel Mix) by Urang Matang (2019) The situation in South Africa was dire. In November this year, the band announced their reunion but Dammers claims he wasn't properly considered. It was an international hit and helped build momentum against apartheid. "It's just a real honour for me to work with such brilliant musicians," he says. So, how much is Jerry Dammers worth at the age of 66 years old? Pete Doherty, former member of The Libertines, namechecked "What I Like Most About You is Your Girlfriend" on Down in Albion, the first Babyshambles album. Not mentioning Thatcher, in a way, was as political as singing about her! "Is that what The Specials was about? in the lyrics' Jerry Dammers at Rock Against Racism, Leeds, in 1981. In the early 1980s, everyone was trying to find new types of music. Dammers wanted nothing to do with them. Hall is survived by his second wife, Lindy Heymann, and their son, Orson, and by two sons, Theo and Felix, from his previous marriage, to Jeannette, which ended in divorce. 209.182.203.225 Watch this space for announcements of additional musicians and special guests. Either the artist still can't state their relationship status, or he's not dating. They were big Specials fans and pushed the track at radio stations. As was common knowledge at the time of their success, Jerry Dammers was the founder, main songwriter and driving force of the Specials. When he talks about this project, which features Mercury Prize-nominated pianist Zoe Rahman and the acclaimed saxophonists Denys Baptiste and Larry Stabbins, Dammers' mood lightens. The Specials ' singer Terry Hall has denied the claims of founding member Jerry Dammers that he was "kicked out" of the band ahead of their forthcoming reunion. The statement concludes: "Jerry does not believe it represents what the real Specials stood for, politically, or in terms of creativity, imagination or forwardness of ideas, and he does not think the proposed venues would really be appropriate to a band of the status of the real Specials.". Read more about this topic: Jerry Dammers, In how few words, for instance, the Greeks would have told the story of Abelard and Heloise, making but a sentence of our classical dictionary. We moderns, on the other hand, collect only the raw materials of biography and history, memoirs to serve for a history, which is but materials to serve for a mythology.Henry David Thoreau (18171862), There never was a good biography of a good novelist. So, how much is Jerry Dammers worth at the age of 66 years old? The action you just performed triggered the security solution. Whatcha Talking 'Bout by Musical Youth (1983) Fine Style by Dr. Echo and DJ Reverend (1994) was covered in. Jerry does not wish to go into too much detail at this point, except to say that for over 25 years he had dreamed that his former bandmates might come back one day, and was deeply shocked to find that when they did, for some of them, it was apparently to kick him out.". At 66 years old, Jerry Dammers height not available right now. Who Is Jerry Dammers? Please refresh the page or navigate to another page on the site to be automatically logged inPlease refresh your browser to be logged in, Find your bookmarks in your Independent Premium section, under my profile. The band, led by Jerry Dammers and singer Terry Hall with a revolving cast of musicians, was formed in Coventry in 1977 and released its first album, titled The Specials, in 1979. Paul Morley talks to the ex-Specials keyboard player and Sun Ra devotee about his love of experimental jazz guardian.co.uk. In February 1990, when I heard Mandela was being released, it felt incredible. We will update Jerry Dammerss Height, weight, Body Measurements, Eye Color, Hair Color, Shoe & Dress size soon as possible. and The Spatial AKA Orchestra. If they hadn't liked it, I don't know if it would have been played on Radio 1. But what we did was nothing compared to the sacrifices made by those who suffered underapartheid. Nelson Mandela, as the song was originally called, was the other way round: two mournful brass moments contrast with the uptempo celebratory melody. So I had Elvis there, as well as Dave Wakeling and Ranking Roger from the Beat, and Iinvited Lynval back as a gesture of goodwill. He is a composer and writer, known for Mystery Men (1999), Natural Born Killers (1994) and Sixteen Candles (1984). Born on 22 May 1955 in United Kingdom, Jerry Dammers started his career as Songwriter . In early 1986, he took part in the Red Wedge tour that also featured The Style Council, The Communards, and Junior Giscombe. According to the statement, members of the Specials have said that "the door is still open to [Dammers]," but they "fail to mention that Jerry has been driven out every time he has attempted to get involved over the last year. He puts down the figurine, commenting that it is "some Carnaby Street tat". The Specials were advocates of late-Seventies postmodern ska, the inventors of two-tone and quite simply one of the coolest, most important British bands of all time. We have no information about his girlfriend/boyfriend. Jeremy David Hounsell Dammers. Despite the mudbath conditions, Dammers went along to watch. We will update Jerry Dammers's Height, weight, Body Measurements, Eye Color, Hair Color, Shoe & Dress size soon as possible. View popular celebrities life details, birth signs and real ages. Founder of Two-Tone Records and core member of The Specials. He is a member of famous with the age 67 years old group. Not mentioning Thatcher, in a way, was as political as singing about her! Nevertheless, the Specials individuals denied the matter, saying, Theyre trying to remove me from the band not in the least a size, not at all.. Asked if he will watch any of the tour, he struggles to find words and sighs, exasperated. Structural Info Quotes Facts Filmography Facebook gives people the power to. Your email address will not be published. He founded 2 Tone Records, which helped develop the 1970s/1980s ska revival. We have no more Information about his Father; we will try to collect information and update soon. Michael Snoddys Wiki, net worth. Structural Info without George Michael or Morecambe and Wise without Morecambe or, er, Wise. So, how much is Jerry Dammers worth at the age of 67 years old? "Through my teenage years I was writing songs, playing in club bands, but at the back of my mind was the day when I would form my own band. You meet people from all over the world, Africa to Brazil, who know it. The chorus was sung by three top session singers including Caron Wheeler, who went on to join Soul II Soul. The Estimated Net worth is $80K USD $85k. The backing vocals are by Molly and Polly Jackson, two girls Brad [drummer John Bradbury] met in a bar in Camden. Aside from its remarkable costumes which liberate the performers from their inhibitions, according to Dammers the orchestra uses other visual effects including mannequins and video, while mixing funk, ska and jazz with modern British styles such as jungle and dubstep. It was a very exciting time. He also introduced Simple Minds to producer Tony Hollingsworth and they became the first major act to agree to perform at Hollingsworth's Nelson Mandela 70th Birthday Tribute concert, which was broadcast worldwide from London's Wembley Stadium, on 11 June 1988. And then things really took off, with a lot of people who hadn't previously supported anti-apartheid coming onboard. When he goes on stage these days his garb is an outlandish mix of ancient Egyptian and intergalactic traveller. We don't have much information about He's past relationship and any previous engaged. Jerry Dammers formed the Specials in Coventry in 1977. Learn How rich is He in this year and how He spends money? We recommend you to check the complete list of Famous People born on 22 May. After just two albums, singer Terry Hall and backing vocalists Lynval Golding and Neville Staple left to ' form Fun Boy Three. I think writing the tune before writing any lyrics was key. According to our Database, He has no children. "My ideas are radical, and hopefully they always will be." At the time, there were these two enormously influential record pluggers called Ferret'n'Spanner. "They will either react against it, or stop and think about what I'm trying to say," he says. Specials drummer John Bradbury dies. The shock news comes just weeks after. I was listening to all this stuff and made up a tune that was vaguely Latin-African. He is too many people, if hes any good.F. But it seems the audience will see nothing of the man who assembled this seven-piece band and forged its genre-defying sound, one that fused the defiant optimism of Jamaican ska with the anger of punk, alongside lyrics that reflected the dearth of opportunity in Britain's decaying industrial cities at the start of the Thatcher years. He recruited every member individually, and the musical and style direction was guided by him. That's why what is happening now is so horrible to me because it's as though my whole youth, my whole life, is being stolen," he says. Performance & security by Cloudflare. This website is using a security service to protect itself from online attacks. Jungle Music (1982) by Rico Rodriguez and The Special AKA Producer credit: Jerry Dammers. It's a miniature Rude Boy, with dark suit, porkpie hat and even the gappy smile that has been Dammers' trademark since he went over the handlebars of his bike as a schoolboy. "It sounds like I'm being rude but I was bemused by it and a bit bored because it was so predictable." According to the statement issued on his behalf: "Many people are under the impression it is the original Specials [re-forming for the reunion dates]. In November 2006, Dammers was awarded an honorary degree from Coventry University, celebrating by DJing at the launch party of the Coventry branch of the Love Music Hate Racism organisation. It helped that you had someone who was the very embodiment of evil in power. All things considered, his followers have cherished him and his interesting beautiful giggle. This interview was given before Nelson Mandela's death. Jerry Dammers Height, Weight & Measurements. The founding member of the 1970s ska group, who will not be part of their . He also founded 2 Tone Records. Meet Jerry Dammers, wife and partner, shares his family The 66-year-old Jerry Dammers is by all accounts unmarried and does not appear to have a husband. Jerry Dammers attended King Henry VIII School, Coventry. I didn't quite know what it was, but it was very simple. Dammers was keen to do more than just replicate The Specials' early work: "I had lots of ideas for how to do this in a way that's a bit more interesting, just tweak it to make it more modern and not just a nostalgia knees-up," he says. Start your Independent Premium subscription today. He left India at the age of 2, first living in Coventry, then moving to Sheffield at the age of 10. Photograph: Georges DeKeerle/Getty, ANC's glory fades as South Africa's 'born free' generation votes, 'I'm more mature than South African democracy itself', Theborn free generation: 20-year-olds in South Africa prepare for first vote video, Jerry Dammers to be honoured in South Africa for Free Nelson Mandela, Nelson Mandela: the triumph of the protest song, How protest songs came into their own with the campaign to free Mandela, the Wembley Stadium concert with people like Dire Straits and Whitney Houston. 66-years-old Jerry Dammers neither seems to be married nor appears to have a wife. A lexis Petridis interviewed my former bandmates John Bradbury, Lynval Golding and Terry Hall, who are intending to take part in what they claim to be "The Specials' 30th . Not only that, but they came from Coventry, Britains very own answer to Detroit, the epitome of the post-war urban wasteland, the quintessential concrete jungle, and felt they had a right to bleat about anything they wanted to, especially the onslaught of Thatcherism. Brad played a disco, afro-type beat and Elvis put an echo on it right in the middle of the song, for that boom-boom-boom bit. Jerry Dammers was born on 22 May, 1955 in Ooty, India, is a Keyboardist, songwriter, DJ. Carl Bart of The Libertines included a Dammers composition, "Too Much Too Young", on his personal compilation album Under The Influence. Quite simply, I thought Dammers was something of a musical genius. Dammers was born in Ootacamund, Tamil Nadu, South India, the son of a clergyman who went on to become Dean of Bristol Cathedral, he attended King Henry VIII School, Coventry. Ghost Town [the Specials' 1981 No 1] was a melancholy song with a happy middle eight. he is one of famous Songwriter with the age 66 years old group. "It feels fantastic. People were shocked by this very gentle person, and immediately warmed to him. We recommend you to check the complete list of Famous People born on 22 May. The family moved to England, and Jerry was raised and schooled in Coventry. Jerry Dammers - Keyboards, Robin Hopcraft - Trumpet, Terry Edwards - Baritone Sax, Harry Brown - Trombone, Patrick Illingworth - Drums, Crispin Robinson - Percussion, Ollie Bayley - Bass, Patrick Hatchett - Guitar, Reuben Fox - Tenor sax /flute. Jerry has a duty to inform anybody who may be interested, of the true situation, which is that he was not invited to take part in this proposed tour, or even told about it.". The anecdote - which occurred in December 1979 - concerns Jerry Dammers, keyboardist of The Specials and founder of 2 Tone Records: There were six of them, boisterous and laughing, coming down the road towards us. In the same month, he attended a private viewing of a Harry Pye curated art exhibition in east London that featured paintings of bands and singers that had once been championed by the late BBC Radio 1 DJ John Peel. With any boycott, if you start making an exception for this pop musician, or that professor, then the whole campaign is in danger of being undermined To walk into that situation in defiance of an established boycott was very irresponsible, and predictably proved extremely divisive. "The whole place would be bouncing up and down in unison; whole buildings used to shake with the excitement at that time," he says. I have been treated in the most despicable manner." document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()), Who Are Jordyn Huitema Parents Roger Huitema And Julie Huitema? After his long musical profession, the craftsman also received the Ivor Novello Inspiration Award in 2014. "We played at an old theatre in Southend and holes started appearing in the floor and kids started disappearing into the cellar 12 feet below. Fathers name is Not Available. Now, his relationship is perfect. One notable performer, Jerry Dammers, lost his front teeth when he was young and was hit in the face by a 16 ounce glass at the Coventry club. There were lots of arguments so I asked Elvis Costello to produce the song, because I thought he'd bring everyone together. I wrote the brass. Jeremy David Hounsell Dammers (born 22 May 1955) is a British musician who is a founder, keyboard player and primary songwriter of the Coventry, England, based ska revival band The Specials, The Special A.K.A. But we are sure that it is not available and his spouses name is not available. I picked up lots of leaflets at the concert and started learning about Mandela. Either the artist still cant state their relationship status, or hes not dating. The Specials Mk. At the time, Jerry was only 19 years old and the gap between his teeth was getting bigger and bigger. Jerry Dammers Net Worth His net worth has been growing significantly in 2020-2021. He had been a member of The Cissy Stone Soul Band, and studied art at Coventry's Lanchester Polytechnic (now Coventry University), where he met Horace Panter. He is currently single. Sure, the band were earnest, but they were studiedly sarcastic too, which endeared them to everyone at the time who mattered. He is known for establishing 2 Tone Records and his amazing skills on turntables and consoles. Your IP: People were arguing in pubs about monetarism, inflation and unemployment. (On, writer: "It's Up to You Live at the Moonlight Club", TV Series documentary writer - 2 episodes, 2009 arranger - 1 episode, 2009, TV Series arranger: "Do The Dog" / writer: "Gangsters", "Man At C&A", "Too Much Too Young", "Ghost Town", "Nite Klub", TV Movie documentary writer: "Gangsters" - uncredited, TV Special documentary writer: "Ghost Town", performer: "Riot City" / writer: "Riot City", Documentary writer: "Nite Klub", "Too Much Too Young", "Man at C and A" - uncredited, Nelson Mandela: An International Tribute for a Free South Africa, Freedomfest: Nelson Mandela's 70th Birthday Celebratation, Himself - The Specials / Himself - Member: The Specials. Cocky little skinheads in Harrington jackets and Levi's rolled up over the ankles of their DMs. The primary justification behind his front-toothed accident is the bicycle injury and having his incisors brushed in after being pushed through the 16-ounce goggles. At that 1990 Wembley show, someone introduced me to him as the person who wrote Free Nelson Mandela. Dali Tambo [son of exiled ANC president Oliver] approached me to form a British wing of Artists Against Apartheid, and we did loads of concerts, leading up to a huge event on Clapham Common in 1986 that attracted a quarter of a million people. In 1985, in the wake of the Band Aid single, he organised the recording and release of the "Starvation" single, a version of The Pioneers' 1969 song, in aid of famine relief in Africa, featuring members of The Special AKA, UB40, Madness, The Pioneers, and The Beat. It was never going to be easy to replicate that feeling 30 years on, especially after the group's acrimonious break-up in 1981. ", The Spatial AKA Orchestra will play the Barbican, London EC2 (020 7638 8891, www.barbican.org.uk), on 10 March, Join thought-provoking conversations, follow other Independent readers and see their replies. Also, it looks like he doesn't have any children in the family. "Ah yes," he said, "very good.". His initial music influences were 60's powerpop bands like The Who, The Small Faces, The Kinks, which made him want to be in a band, and he was also influenced by soul music. Jerry Dammerss income source is mostly from being a successful . In the space of just two years, from 1979 to 1981, the original Specials managed to embody the new decades violent energies, morals and conflicts though always with an ironic and often sardonic detachment that kept the band cool as the Eighties grew increasingly hot. We dont have much information about Hes past relationship and any previous engaged. Roisin Murphy on her gay fanbase: hell yes, Ive come home', Eight reasons why Bryan Ferry is the master of menswear, GQ editor Dylan Jones explains why The Specials' self-titled ska classic should be on your isolation rotation, The best skiwear to elevate your style status on the slopes, In the trenches at Daniel Lee's Burberry debut, The best suits for men: 32 stylish suits for every occasion, The Rolling Stones and The Beatles banding together proves that everything, even decades-long rivalries, ends at some point, The 2023 GQ Food & Drink Awards shortlist, At the Grammys, Harry Styles supercharged the next big cult brand, Ice Spice: I've been a diva since birth, Jack Harlows Ultimate Shopping Spree ($73,000,000), Print copies & Digital access for only 1. (On, writer: "It's Up to You Live at the Moonlight Club", TV Series documentary writer - 2 episodes, 2009 arranger - 1 episode, 2009, TV Series arranger: "Do The Dog" / writer: "Gangsters", "Man At C&A", "Too Much Too Young", "Ghost Town", "Nite Klub", TV Movie documentary writer: "Gangsters" - uncredited, TV Special documentary writer: "Ghost Town", performer: "Riot City" / writer: "Riot City", Documentary writer: "Nite Klub", "Too Much Too Young", "Man at C and A" - uncredited, Nelson Mandela: An International Tribute for a Free South Africa, Freedomfest: Nelson Mandela's 70th Birthday Celebratation, Himself - The Specials / Himself - Member: The Specials. And when I was 14, I demonstrated against the Springboks rugby tour [South Africa's whites-only team]. He is not dating anyone. Your email address will not be published. During his formulative years Jerry was a mod, hippie and skinhead. He had been a member of The Cissy Stone Soul Band, and studied art at Coventry's Lanchester Polytechnic (now Coventry University), where he met Horace Panter. During his formulative years Jerry was a mod, hippie and skinhead. Learn How rich is He in this year and how He spends money? Dammers may have spawned a youth cult, but he did so from a sense of individuality rather than tribalism. Please refresh the page or navigate to another page on the site to be automatically logged in, Please refresh your browser to be logged in, Ska wars: Why isn't Jerry Dammers playing on The Specials' sell-out, Extra 20% off selected fashion and sportswear at Very, Up to 20% off & extra perks with Booking.com Genius Membership, $6 off a $50+ order with this AliExpress discount code, 10% off selected orders over 100 - eBay voucher code, Compare broadband packages side by side to find the best deal for you, Compare cheap broadband deals from providers with fastest speed in your area, All you need to know about fibre broadband, Best Apple iPhone Deals in the UK March 2023, Compare iPhone contract deals and get the best offer this March, Compare the best mobile phone deals from the top networks and brands. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. He has been an icon and motivation for many people and therefore has shown their advantage in the artist. As an avowed radical he is disturbed by what he sees as the "extremely conservative" musical approach of his peers and alarmed by their plans to dress in tonic suits made by a company that boasts of the exclusively British origin of its garments. "I never give up. And an activist. At the time, there was a huge amount of opposition and propaganda directed against Mandela. "At the beginning of The Specials it was fine, but when it came to the second album I wanted the music to progress, because the first album is all just three-chord tricks. 14, I do n't know if it would have been played on radio 1 of... The primary justification behind his front-toothed accident is the bicycle injury and having his incisors brushed in being... Worth at the age of 2 Tone Records, which helped develop the 1970s/1980s revival! Jerry was a melancholy song with a lot of people who had n't liked it or. Their relationship status, or he & # x27 ; s rolled up over ankles... 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